Episode 57: The Realtor Mom Life with Connie, Tiff & Vanessa

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Connie

Hello, and welcome to The Thoughtful Realtor podcast. This is a podcast where we sit down for insights, stories, and conversations about all things real estate, running a real estate team in California, and how we find our way as leaders and business partners.

I'm Connie Chung, one of the founders and partners of Willowmar Real Estate, and mama to two kiddos, Mia, who's six years old, and Mateo, who's three. And for this episode, we have two seasoned mama agents from Willowmar, Vanessa Gamp and Tiffany Chung, joining us. And I'm so excited to be in conversation with you both because we're going to talk about all things mamahood, running a real estate business, being moms, how the two interconnect.

And so, maybe to kick it off, Vanessa, tell us about what family looks like, kids, how old they are, how you were just mentioning earlier before we started recording your drop-off situation. I know that is a big thing in the mom world.

Vanessa

It is. It is. So, I'm very excited to be on the podcast today. So, as you mentioned, my name is Vanessa Gamp. Obviously, I work with you lovely ladies here at Willowmar. And then, I'm also this year, the president of San Francisco's Association of Realtors. And then in our house, I have myself and my husband, Greg, my oldest daughter, Simone, who is nine. And then I have twins, boy-girl twins, Hayden and Luca, who are seven.

So, we live in San Francisco. We are very rare in that both myself and my husband are actually San Francisco natives, so we do have a decent chunk of family here. So, both sets of the kids’ grandparents live here in the city, about 15, 20 minutes away. So, we do get lots of childcare help from Grandma Jane.

We're also a one-car family. So, sometimes we just get Grandma Jane's car. Sometimes that is the help that we need. We just need two vehicles. We get lots of chauffeur services from Grandpa Greg. And then my parents are also great for a drop-in emergency. Like, “Hey, I need to take someone to this appointment, this lesson. Can I drop the other one or two off at your house?”

So, that's Grammy, my mom, and Papa, so we're really lucky to have that built-in care and just like everyone else, we have some—a small collection of amazing babysitters that help too. The

Connie

Logistical support on a one-car family is real. We're also a one-car household in L.A., which is proving to be a little, a lot more challenging as the kids get older and more activities are involved. And funny enough, today when I dropped off my son Mateo at preschool, the power was out. I think they're doing some construction in the neighborhood.

So I was already trying to plan out a Plan B in the event that we would have to figure out how to pick him up. And we're like, “Okay, worst-case scenario, my mom can step in and help out with that.”

Vanessa

Grandmas are clutch. I'm so glad that I have access.

Connie

Definitely. Tiff, tell us, what does your family look like these days?

Tiffany

Oh, boy. So, I'm Tiffany Chung, and I have four kiddos. The oldest, Tristan, who is 14, Zoe is six, Zane is three, and Xander's 18 months. Yeah, it's to add on to what Vanessa says: thank goodness for grandmas because I can—you know, it's always the last minute “Hey, can you help watch two out of the four” or “Can we do a quick drop off or could you help pick so-and-so up?”

But super grateful for my mom. They call her Ah Ma and yeah, she's always there and it's so nice to have the extra support. We do have two cars, however, so I don't know how you guys are doing it—managing with one car with all the different drop offs, but I'm kind of running around all the time. I go to two different schools, and then I'm doing most of the pickup and drop off and yeah, it's busy.

Connie

I feel like there was always this misconception of like, “Oh, you know, mom realtor, they might be ultra-lax” or “They might be too busy to take on so-and-so as a client.” But I think I even had that sort of limiting or shallow belief prior to having kids.

And I will say since becoming a parent, it's like, “Oh no, if I give it to the realtor who is a mom, I know she will carry it through, take care of everyone, be on top of it, be able to juggle many things all at once because so much about being a mom and a realtor is: there are a lot of transferable skills in both departments, especially in being able to be a strong negotiator, as well as a project manager, and a counselor, and all those things.

So I'd love to hear from you two for you: Tiff, to start, any surprising skills for you that you've been like, “Oh, I can easily manage this because I am a mom” or vice versa, that you've applied as a mom into the real estate world or real estate into your personal life.

Tiffany

That's a good question, actually. One thing that comes to mind is like the different personalities because all my kids are so, so different and just learning. And as now, the summer, we’re talkative, we're just learning to be able to navigate with different attitudes, different personality types, different tones has really helped.

I mean, working in the real estate industry, you come across different agents and different clients, of course. So I think knowing to just help people; I mean, being able to match the energy and knowing how to respond and be compassionate at the same time. I'm sure you guys can agree: being moms, we're always trying to problem solve. So while working in real estate, it's like we're thinking ahead and then juggling multiple things while obviously trying to make all parties happy.

Connie

So you just brought up like a visual, like a visual reaction of your kids eating very sloppily or whatever is about to spill a cup of milk and you're like, you can see it before it happens.

You're reaching over to catch or stop the spill. It's kind of like, yeah, scouting out the fires before they happen in an escrow. Or with like a challenging client, knowing they're going to come back with this or say this. You already have your line that you're going to share with them or a way to approach it. It's always that foreshadowing of what's going to happen next or being at the ready to put out a potential emergency. What about for you, Vanessa?

Vanessa

I definitely think the ability to both come up with a plan, so think about the logistics from the beginning, and the ability to throw the entire plan out the window whenever necessary and completely pivot.

I do those things synonymously both in parenting and in realtor life. So, you can't just wing it all the time, right? So, you usually have to come in with a plan and some structure. But you cannot be so rigid within your plan or your vision because you are not the only person. You're not the only factor.

There's a lot of people, outside factors. You have to consider a lot of personalities to deal with. So I feel like I use that skill set at home and with work a lot. And also the mindset of: no job is too big or too small for me.

The amount of stuff that I have done as a parent that, before kids I'd be like “What in the heck?” I'm sure if I say this—and I apologize for listeners that this is not something you've ever thought of—but as a mom, if you see that kid getting ready to throw up, you are immediately putting your hands out.

You're like, “I can clean my hands. This is so much, please puke into my hands.” I don't know any mom that hasn't done this. I'd much rather you throw up into my hands than on whatever area that we are around, unless we're outside. Right. That is not something I would have ever considered a reasonable thing to do for children.

And same thing, like with listings, I have listings. I've absolutely done things like: I had a client once that was on such a tight budget. They could not afford power washing. And I went out with a garden hose, and my husband and I hand washed the front of the house as far as we could reach with the ladder using magic erasers and the garden hose.

So, I was just like, whatever, yeah, I can sell luxury real estate, but I will also hand wash the front of your house so that we can get this sold. Like there's no job that's too crazy in order to get it done.

Connie

I love that. Yeah. I love that mentality of just that grit and that being adaptable to the situation because I think of literally cleaning our kids’ butts and poo.

One of my earliest open houses, there was literal human feces in front of the front door and someone had to clean it and yeah, there's no job that's too big or too small. I love that, Vanessa. Because it's like, we will get in there and get dirty with it and get it clean. Yes. Yeah. I love that. And it's very much, well, luckily my husband, I think he was my boyfriend at the time, was helping me set up and I got him to help me go to this local CVS to pick that up.

But it reminds me that so much of real estate is a family business too. And I love that we can incorporate family. Have you two seen your families involved? I mean, it sounds like you and Greg were out on a ladder power washing a home. Have you found yet other interesting scenarios where you're like, “Oh, that's really cool. Our family gets to be involved.” Or “No, you know, it's pushed our family boundaries.”

Vanessa

I try really hard not to utilize my husband as a handyman, but sometimes I pull him in, in a tough situation. Absolutely. Every one of my long-term vendors has known my kids since birth because I would just cart them around.

So like, “Oh, I'm going to go to this new listing and see how the painting is going.” I'm bringing two babies in car seats and plunking them in the living room. And all the painters are going to—all these men in their coveralls are going to go goo-goo and gaga with them. So, like my kids have been involved; I'm not making them work the open house, but you know, sometimes I'm bringing them along to appointments or definitely during property prep, things like that.

So yeah, I've never tried to hide the fact that I had children. Everyone is aware that I have them and they get brought in. They know what I do. It also helps because as they're getting older—so now they're all school age—if I can't, if I have to miss something on the weekend or if Greg is taking them solo and I'm not with it, they know why. They know what I'm doing. They've seen my job before and they understand. So that is also helpful.

Tiffany

I love that too. Yeah. Same with the kiddos. I usually try to bring them on. It's during the weekend, like an open house, I'm like, “Hey, help! Help with the signs or help with the A-frames.” And they're usually good sports about it. And I think they're slowly—since they are younger—understanding what I actually do for work.

And it's, yeah, it's been fun to bring them out. You know, of course, it's sometimes slower to get things done when they're involved, but nice to have them in on it and see us in action.

Connie

How do you describe what you do to your kids?  

Tiffany

Okay, so it's very kindergarten level. I like to share with my three- and six-year-old that, you know, Mommy helps friends and family find homes. And whether it's a new home or a bigger home, we help … I work with Auntie Connie who runs the big business. And she's one of the owners of the business and we all help each other and support each other and help find homes.

Connie

Oh yeah, for listeners who don't know, Tiffany and I are sisters. I didn’t share that in our intro.

Vanessa

Yeah, I also have… not even kindergarten. So I have a “preschool description” that I've used for many years. And so, “Mommy sells empty houses.” Yeah. So, in San Francisco, where we sell real estate—it's not this way everywhere—but in San Francisco, if you sell a home, 95 percent of the time, that home is vacant. And so when you have a really little child, a house is full of furniture and therefore someone lives there.

So when you're walking into a staged house, they did not understand that nobody lived there. They're like, “Why is it full of furniture? Obviously someone lives there.” So that is the phrase that I use for many years, like “Mommy helps sell empty houses so that people can turn them into homes.”

Obviously now they're a lot older. It's one of those family phrases that get stuck. My kids still call them empty houses, even though they're very clear on the concept of realtor. Sometimes, I'll be looking at properties online, and literally yesterday, Hayden, one of my seven-year-olds, she was like, “Oh, are you looking at empty houses?”

I was like, “Yeah, I am.” But then I also, over the years, I've had other jobs simultaneously in real estate. So I have been assistant manager or worked in offices or like now, being president of the association. I also make it very clear to them that I am doing that as well. I think it's really important for my kids to know.

Like, “Mom doesn't just disappear. She is out working hard to help you, to help our family to help others.” And so, over the years, I've explained like “Oh, I'm the boss.” Or “Mom runs the office.” Or now, they really love telling people that I'm the president. They keep saying—of San Francisco—and people are asking, “Are you running for mayor?”

And I'm like, “Absolutely not! The president of my professional group.” But I always try and describe what I do to my kids because I also think it's important that they know that I'm seeking out higher roles. I'm seeking out leadership. That I have gotten these positions. I really want them to have this outlook that if they want to be the president of San Francisco, yeah.

Connie

It's a big deal. And your kids, it's so heart-warming because I feel like calling you “president” and them connecting the pieces and understanding that you are a leader and you're running the organization. I love how both of you are talking to your kids about your profession and what you do in all capacities and because it's something I just started doing and I'm figuring out the words to have it make sense.

So it's inspiring to hear both of you. Curious, Vanessa, for you, how would you say motherhood has influenced your leadership style?

Vanessa

I think that … I will say that I've always been pretty decently skilled at working with many different types of personalities. I can mirror somebody's personality: if I can tell they'd be more comfortable if I did more talking, was more assertive, was more laid back. I've always been really good at that.

I will say that problem solving when the other person is stressed out has improved over time as I've become a parent. The ability to see my kid being really stressed out, knowing that they're stressed and therefore maybe not looking at the problem in the same way that someone from the outside is looking at the problem. Whereas before, I'd be so in-lock with my clients that I would have the same level of stress that something's going to fall apart or that this new thing popped up on an inspection. Or, oh my gosh, you know, someone just lost their job and we're in the middle of escrow.

Sometimes, I would have the exact same level of stress, and I would be just as attached to the outcome. Being a parent, you can kind of detach yourself from the outcome so that you could look at the bigger picture. You know, you have an advantage. You're a full-blown adult. You can understand it is not the end of the world if you miss the first five minutes of this movie because you were running late or whatever the kid emergency is. And I think that it has also allowed me to do that with the adults in real estate that I work with as well.

So like, oh my God, someone's lost their job. That is actually a really big deal, but we're not going to stress on that particular … let's take a step back. We're going to do what we can to protect your assets. I'm going to smoothly get you out of this deal. Perhaps we can still move forward. I'm going to ask around about some creative lending options. Detaching from the outcome and just looking at all the big picture so that you can decide how to move forward is something I've gotten better with after having kids.

Connie

What I find fascinating is: Vanessa, you became a mom after being in the real estate industry for quite some time. And Tiff, you became a realtor after being a mom. Would love to hear from both of you, some of the beliefs or the things you've heard about being a working mom in real estate that have proven to be true.

And some maybe more misconceptions where you're like, “Oh yeah, I've heard that, but that definitely does not apply to me” or that's definitely not the way it is in our  industry. What did you think being a realtor was going to be like before you got into it as a mom?

Tiffany

I think just getting into real estate after becoming a mom or even if I wasn't a mom, I think this misconception of, “Oh, we get to show beautiful homes, and we just open the door and meet so many people.”

But it's so much harder than that. And being that this is going on, I'm going to be in my third year of real estate. It is so, so hard that there's so many issues that arise from using your phone as a key fob there as a supra. It's just so difficult even meeting new friends. And learning how to build relationships with other mom friends has been really difficult, but I'm slowly getting better at just making conversation.

Yeah, so I always just thought it was like very glam and there's definitely a lot of blood, sweat and tears that goes into this job and industry. And it is really hard. And sometimes, I even find myself … I don't think I'm answering your question. But just taking it out on my kids or even my partner when I get in these really stressful situations. But it is really hard.

And that's what I didn't really think or really understand and get. Although taking my test was a lot of fun and studying and saying I was going to get my salesperson license was exciting. But after that was when it really became very challenging

Connie

When the real work began.

Tiffany

Exactly.

Connie

I hear you.

Vanessa

So for me, so I went into real estate in 2008 and I had my daughter, my first child, at the end of 2014. So, I had several years working in real estate and I knew exactly what the job entailed. I remember being like, “How am I going to fit …” Doing it anyway, but, “How am I going to fit a baby into this schedule?”

I'm not entirely clear on how this is going to work but knowing that there were tons of moms. I could see tons of moms that were still working and doing real estate. I do remember very initially, so before Simone, my eldest, was born, I remember being really nervous. Like what if I just fall in love with parenting so much that I don't want to go back to work?

This is a real thing that happens, and obviously, it has nothing to do with my kid or my desire to be a mom. But after I was home with her for two months, I was like, “Okay. Yeah, this is not a problem. I cannot wait to get back into the office. I cannot wait to talk to adults. I cannot wait to do some real estate.”

And so, what I did on purpose for several years, which I ended up loving—I feel like I had the best-case scenario as both a stay-at-home mom and a working mom—is I hired a nanny part time and I took a part-time assistant sales manager position at my company.

And so Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, I was a hundred percent in the office and I was a hundred percent covered in childcare. And what I would do is: I would cram a week's worth of activities into those three days. And that's how it made it work for me. But then on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I got to be home with my kids, and I did this later when I had my twins as well.

So I still got to go to playgroups and mommy groups. I had playdates in the middle of the week. We could go do arts and crafts on a Tuesday at 10 in the morning. I got to have that experience. And then I also got to have the working mom experience. And personally, I don't think I could have done it any other way.

I got to have it all, which is pretty rare. And I think the big joke that it … well, it's not a joke. The line that gets told to so many people, especially mothers, is “Go into real estate. The schedule is so flexible.” So that is both truth and a huge lie all at the same time.

So it is flexible in that, for example, I was able to do three days on, two days off, and then work when I needed to on the weekends. But it wasn't like I was doing any less work. I was just working crazy hours on those days. Or, you know, as soon as I put the baby to bed, I'd start working again at eight o'clock at night. So it's not quite as flexible as they make it appear on television. You’ve still got to get it all done.

Connie

Yeah. The “flexibility” word is so … It's a complex word in our industry. As a working realtor definitely.

Vanessa

The irony being that so flexible that right now in the middle of this work podcast, I'm going to switch to my phone to continue this podcast so I can go pick up a kid.

Connie

Exactly. I love it. Working mom. On that note with boundaries, would love to hear, Tiff: have you learned, especially because in real estate and working as a realtor, a lot of times we may not have the flexibility we were looking for. Or we're just adapting and responding to our client's needs. Or sometimes, it's going into the dinner hour or into the weekend.

Have there been times where the boundaries have been pushed for you? And also, have you learned to create some new boundaries as a result?

Tiffany

Oh, yeah, that's a good one. I feel like every day, boundaries are being pushed, especially because being a realtor, it's not like your standard nine to five. We're working night and day, you know, ratifying late into the evening or sometimes early in the morning.

But yeah, I think something we're working on right now is just when it's dinner or at least calendaring and trying to figure out: what are my must dos or my to-do list. And what items do I need to make sure I touch on or actually complete so that when it comes to dinner and everyone's picked up after school and all of that, that we are using that hour, one-and-a-half hours of eating a meal together and sitting down and really talking about our days.

Because in the mornings it's always go, go, go. I don't know about you ladies, but I am always rushing every morning and yelling. So working on slowing it down. Once we do the pickup and get dinner or prepare dinner and having everyone share a few sentences about their day or what made them happy or sad. Starting to incorporate that. Yeah.

Connie

That's cute. I like that's reminds me of: we're trying to do the same, I notice, for dinners. I'm just so tired that, yeah, talking about boundaries. I have tried to have a “no phone at the dinner table” policy. And I always have my phone on silent for the most part when I'm with people, family, or especially for mealtimes. If I am expecting call, and usually it's only if we're in the middle of a negotiation, or something that's super pressing when that's time sensitive, I will turn on the volume for my phone.

And I was listening to another podcast where they were talking about family conversation starters as “What's your sweet and sour?” So we just instituted that in our family dinners, like “What was your sweet and sour of the day? Like something that went well, and something not so well.” And the next part that this person mentioned was like a sprinkle of gratitude. Yeah, “what are you grateful for.” And that's something trying to get to, I feel like our kids are still learning that concept at three and six, and I have to remind myself: we really, as the parents, have to model that, and I'm trying to get better at leading that,

Tiffany

That's a good reminder. I really like that sweet and sour. I might have to try that tonight. Even the gratitude. Yeah, it's hard to remember. And, how do you teach your little ones to be grateful? What are some things you say?

Connie

That's so hard. I know, what I should not say that I sometimes do say. Even at the breakfast table it was something that Mom would do to us that I know is not the best way to go about it when you're trying to get your kid to eat their breakfast or eat whatever they have. I remember Mom would tell us there’s starving kids who don't have any food and I know that’s probably not the most productive way, but I found myself telling Mia, “Oh yeah, there are other kids who would love a warm home-cooked meal.”

Talking about how to get kids to be grateful, Vanessa, any parenting tips there on how to show gratitude in your family?

Vanessa

I do not necessarily have many specific tips other than I'm very conscious on exposing my kids to all different socioeconomic worlds.

And so, we live in San Francisco. There is a very visible homeless population here. It is very important to me that I don't ignore it. I don't pretend that they don't exist. My kids are going to encounter people that are unhoused or experiencing mental crisis. And so we talk about this, like, we're really lucky. We get to live in a house. Not everybody has enough money to live in a house.

We talk a lot about people getting picky about what they eat. And I'm like, “You're really lucky. You have the option to not like something and then not eat it, but not everybody has that option. So, you can tell me politely at home if you don't like something, but if we're out somewhere, if somebody else has made something, these words really matter. So you're not going to say it's disgusting. If somebody else has gone through time and effort to create it for you.”

So, I think just trying to make them really aware. It's impossible, right? Kids are the center of their own universe, but I'm trying really hard to make sure that they know that in reality, they are not the center of the universe. They are important, but other people are important too.

Connie

That's so beautifully put. I love this. If only listeners could see: Vanessa is literally driving through the city on her way to pick up as she's on this podcast. This is the true definition of being a realtor mom. You were just making all things happen.

On that note, what would you say is the hardest thing about being in real estate as a working parent or as a mom.

Vanessa

You know, I would say that real estate is this really unique industry in which the general public has these very specific views of realtors. Most of them are pretty negative. There is—I forget the name of this survey—but there's this survey done every year to the general public in America, and they ask people how much you value or trust people based on their occupation.

And some of them consistently are coming up hot, you know, like doctors, nurses, teachers. Realtors are so low. We are usually ranked in trustworthiness and value below used-car salespeople. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with used-car salespeople, but we all have the stereotypical picture of who that is.

And so, as somebody who cares so deeply for my clients, I will hand wash your house on the outside, someone who truly gives their all, care so deeply. I'm truly in it to better and improve people's lives. I care so much about giving access to disadvantaged groups. You know, we live in an insanely expensive city.

I try so hard to keep natives here when many of them cannot afford to, if they so choose to live here, I'm going to find whatever we can do to keep you in the city that you love. And for people to just be so disrespectful of my time or to constantly say that they know how to do it better ...

Or it's kind of shocking sometimes what people will tell you to your face because they think you're this horrible person. So yeah, that part can be rough.

Connie

I hear you. That's something I struggle probably with the most, especially with this internal dialogue. I know the value I put out there to my clients and to folks that I am working with, but that internal dialogue of what I know others are perceiving me because of my profession or oh, it's a constant battle. And I find it holds me back from even sometimes owning or like telling folks I work in the real estate industry.

Tiff, what about you? What do you find hard?

Vanessa

I just want to challenge you. You should not. You should tell them that you're a realtor. Because when they get in their head a different, especially if someone gets to know you first and then you tell them a realtor, it's going to help change the image because Connie, you're so sweet. No one's going to take this evil realtor and assume that you are them. So it's helping. It's helping.

Connie

Got it. So I got to put it out there even more. Yes. Thank you for that reminder.

Tiffany

Yeah, thanks for the reminder, Vanessa. Let's see. There's so many challenging parts to being a working mom and realtor. One thing that comes to mind is just constantly being needed by so many different parts.

You know, whether it's the kids that need something, the clients that need something, a lender. Just having or being pulled in so many different directions can be stressful and then you start to neglect yourself. So, whether that's setting aside 30 minutes for yourself to do something for yourself can be tough because then you could have physical, emotional, mental breakdowns, which happens often for me.

So working through that. I wasn't big on calendaring, but something I do for myself is like, “No, I'm going to set this 30 minutes aside or 40 minutes aside for some movement or walking or doing my nails. So setting this time aside for yourself is really important. And I think we, as moms, we're always taking care of everyone. We forget about taking care of ourselves, that can be easily …

Connie

The real estate professional: we're service providers and as moms and parents, the service continues throughout the day is a never-ending cycle of servicing others that it's so easy to forget to service ourselves and really take that time to wrap it up.

What would you say the thing you love the most? And you hope others take away from it. Maybe we have a mom listening and they're thinking about getting into real estate, or maybe there's another working mom, you know, another realtor mom out there who's listening and like, “Oh, I'm not alone in this.” What would you say is your big takeaway or your big thing that keeps you in that you love so much?

Vanessa

I think that if you're getting into this industry, or at least residential real estate, if you do not just love people, then this is going to be a difficult job for you. You have to really love people. Similar to kids. Like you love your kids. Hopefully, you like other people's kids. Not every kid is going to be perfect. Not every kid's going to be your favorite. Even your own kid has days where like, “God, acting like a jerk today.” Like everyone, it's true. Love my kids.

I have days where I act like a jerk. We're all human. But if you really, really love people, what we do is so awesome. We get to help sometimes lifetime dreams come true or help someone through a family crisis.

If you're a person that really likes to caretake, you're lifting this big daunting financial decision. Maybe it's scary. Maybe they're not business oriented. You're taking that off their plate. You're helping them through something. You know, it's real, it really fills my bucket.

It's a very rewarding job that I really love. I'm not doing it for charity. Of course, I also am doing it for money, but this is, I'm not this crazy realtor who's only in it for the money. Right. I'm doing it because I really love people and I really love helping.

Connie

Oh, I hear you. Yeah. There's that deep human connection that we get in working with people in all facets. It's the client, or we are the orchestrator of all the different parties: escrow, lender, inspector, painter, you know, all the different contacts that … We get to deal with so many personalities, some great, some, you know, more challenging, but ultimately, you have to really enjoy that aspect to make it worthwhile.

And it feels, yeah. So I hear you on that. What about you, Tiff?

Tiffany

I would say if you're a mom and figuring out a career transition, I encourage you to take the chance and do it and try it. I guess you won't know until you try. So definitely get out there. And, yeah, we talked about flexibility earlier. But, yeah, you get what you put in. So try it. Try it.

Connie

Totally. Yeah, it doesn't hurt. You don't know. That's so true. You don't know until you're in it.

Vanessa

Yeah. And I think if you're a mom, you're used to being the boss, right? You're in charge of at least one kid. Maybe your kid in your house, maybe your kid and your partner, who knows, but you were used to being in charge of running things, right?

It's an incredibly transferable skill. So when you're in real estate, you're more or less working for yourself. So, you get to set it up in ways that are going to work for you. No realtor's life or day or career looks the same, so it's pretty rare to have that in the job industry. And it's absolutely something that moms are already teed up and successful at.

Connie

There's so much dynamism, caretaking, putting out fires, foreshadowing, planning ahead that are all so many transferable skills you mentioned. Well, I love ending on that note. Give it a try. If your heart is in it, if people are who you love and want to continue working with the good and, you know, and the ugly sometimes, it can be a really great, satisfying career.

Well, thank you so much, Tiff and Vanessa, for being our guests on today's episode and sharing your insights and stories about mamahood and realtor life. It's so fun to connect and there's this almost unspoken connection where you just know. You can see the facial expression, or just the tone and you're like, “Ah, yep, yep, you know, not alone in this.”

And so much of, I think, in life as a mom or in the realtor space, because you are your individual, you are sometimes some going at it alone. Or as a realtor, you are a sole entrepreneur in many ways. It's so helpful to have the community most importantly. And so to our parent listeners and to folks out there, most important to build that community.

And we'd love to hear how you're experiencing and juggling family and career and everything in between. And so if folks want to follow Vanessa, where can they find you, Vanessa, on Instagram?

Vanessa

Yes. I am showing my age. I've had the same handle since AOL. So I am @kurlieeegirlie. K-U-R-L-I three Es. G-I-R-L-I-E. And I am also on Facebook under “Vanessa Gamp.” If you Google my name, all of those pop up. I'm easy to find.

Connie

Oh, and also if you want to see Vanessa as president of SFAR, she is very much in the media, especially with a lot of the hot topics today. And so very out there and really great articles and great leadership. Thank you, Vanessa.

And Tiffany, if folks want to find you, where can they find you on Instagram?

Tiffany

You guys can find me at @sunkissedtiff on Insta.

Connie

Awesome. Well, wonderful. Thank you so much to you both. And we'll link to both of your accounts. And so for listeners, if you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. We would love to hear if you have any mom insights, tips, struggles, things you want to share, we'd love to hear. We are all ears and we read every comment and every review and all of that and appreciate the love. So until next time. Bye.