Episode 63: Connection and Community as Realtors with Kenny and Vanessa
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Hello and welcome to The Thoughtful Realtor podcast. This is a podcast where we sit down for insights, stories, and conversations about all things real estate, running a real estate team here in California and how we find our ways as leaders and business partners.
I'm Kenny Gong, one of the founders and partners of Willowmar Real Estate, and for today's episode, I am interviewing Vanessa Gamp.
Hello, Vanessa!
Hello, hello! I'm very excited to be here, Kenny.
And, Vanessa is an anomaly in so many ways because Vanessa is a sixth generation San Franciscan, the current president of SFAR, a director of the California Association of Realtors and SFAR being the San Francisco Association of Realtors, and also the first black woman president of the association.
That is correct.
And, as well as just a regular old member of the San Francisco Association of Realtors Board of Directors.
I am! I sit on the board!
That's right. And we both were some of the founding members of SFAR's Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Committee. Vanessa has also been a Project Open Hand volunteer, and also in years past, the president of San Francisco Women's Council of Realtors.
So now you all, our dear audience members, can understand why I have asked Vanessa to come talk about being involved in community and how we can best serve because of literally anyone that I know in my life, Vanessa exemplifies this in such the most wonderful way of just showing up in community and being part of community and serving community in this wonderful way that I am constantly inspired by.
And so yes, welcome, Vanessa.
Thank you for that beautiful introduction.
Sixth generation San Franciscan
Let's talk about these deep ties: six generations of San Francisco ties. Can you tell us a little bit more about your roots?
Vanessa: Yeah, sure. My deep connection to San Francisco comes from my mother's side of the family. And so my great, great, great–I don't remember how many times–great grandfather, he actually came in 1849 for the gold rush and struck it rich and bought a bunch of land. Obviously [he] lost the fortune, which is why I'm now working instead of living off my gold rush family money! But we are still very, very much San Franciscans and have been here for a very long time.
You're not sitting on a golden throne.
No golden throne, alas!
Tell us a little bit about an experience or a moment when you felt truly, truly part of the San Francisco community and like the history of San Francisco.
For me, a lot of my deepest connections to the city came from my grandmother. She and I were very, very close. She lived to be 102. And so, for example, she would tell me these fun stories about growing up in the city, and there was so many connections like she was in high school when the Golden Gate Bridge was built. So she remembers walking with her girlfriends, like arms linked, in the very first group–they were like in that group that led people across the Golden Gate Bridge.
So when you get to think about that kind of stuff, there's this great family story that is true. There's a baby grand piano that now lives at my mother's house. And before the 1906 earthquake, it was in a family member's house on a set of flats on what would now be like 19th Avenue. And during the earthquake it flew out the window and rolled all the way downtown, but not a lot of people had this type of grand piano and someone recognized it and literally brought it back–like horse and carriage brought it back–to the house. That piano is still in our family. There's just lots of very cool family ties to the city.
Yeah. And how does that impact you as a citizen of San Francisco and a member of this community?
I think of it as my city. I am incredibly proud to be from here. I'm incredibly proud and blessed to be able to raise my own children here and I think the thing that is so cool about San Francisco is that it's constantly reinventing itself over the years.
And it is just always a place of creativity, invention; it's kind of like the town of misfits, right? So like everyone's a little weird and quirky, but that's cool in San Francisco.
I love the idea of one of my favorite things that I get to brag about is all of my children ate dim sum dumplings before hotdogs. I didn't give anyone a hotdog till they were like three, but everyone was gumming dim sum in early, early years.
And to me, that's just one of the cool privileges of being in the city.
Yeah, and being part of that history, being part of this city, there's this importance of staying and really embedding yourself and being involved in that community.
That’s important to me. The older you get, the more you realize that it is a privilege to be here and that it's often difficult to be or stay here. It is a very expensive city; housing is a problem. Sometimes it's just hard to obtain housing. It's incredibly competitive when you get to the age where you're in the job market.
Often companies are recruiting the best of us from the entire country to come here. So slowly you have friends that start to move away and you're just like, “I can't imagine not being here.”
So for me, I always try and put time and effort into the things that I find important or I'm passionate about, or if I can give back to a community that needs a little extra help. That's what keeps me here, keeps me motivated, makes it so that I would not want to live anywhere else.
There is this amazing thing about the way to stay connected to a city is by actually engaging.
Absolutely.
And it's like the people that you meet, the things that you advocate for, the way that you raise your kids, the way that you go about your professional life. All of these things are tied to like, “I'm doing these things in a way that keeps me rooted in this place.”
Yeah. Everything I'm doing, I am just going to assume I'm going to be there for a long time. My family now–my husband, my kids and I–all live in Crocker Amazon and we've been settled there for four years and we'll probably be there for a while. We had moved around to a couple of places before, and I never went in thinking it's going to be temporary.
I want to meet the family that owns the corner store. I want to chit-chat with my neighbors. We're going to check out this coffee place. All of those things can really help you building relationships and those relationships tie you to those locations.
I love it.
And so you got into real estate fairly young. I think you were in your early twenties?
Yeah. I was about 24.
Oh my gosh. I don't even remember what 24 looked like. That's like 24!
I do remember feeling like I was playing business lady! Putting on one of two suits that I bought from Nordstrom. Actually, my grandmother bought it for me so that I could look professional at my appointment.
It was also, from a very early age in early in your career, you also got pretty involved and engaged in our professional community. So tell us a little bit more about that and why it felt important to you.
Yeah, absolutely. So right out of college, I went the traditional like nine-to-five job route and I got a sales job in biotech, and I did that for almost two years.
So going from a college atmosphere where it's very community-based and then to a nine-to-five office job where it's different, but it's the same thing, it's like built-in social structures–you see coworkers every day, you have inside jokes.
When you get to real estate, it's very unique because you're working for yourself and so sometimes it can actually be very isolating. I'm naturally a very extroverted person. My family only always jokes that I'll talk to a brick wall!
And so when I got to real estate, I was kind of like, Oh, like you don't just go into the office and see people all the time. Sometimes people would be there like office staff, but it's not quite the same. And your coworkers sometimes are your competition, and different people have different ways of handling that. Not everyone is collaborative.
And so my mentor–my now father-in-law–was mentoring me. My very first month after I got my license, he brought me to a Women's Council of Realtors meeting. And their whole concept is to provide education and a safe space to create leaders, entrepreneurs, for women in the real estate sphere because, in real estate it's actually one of the few areas where there's more women than men who are practicing, but there are significantly more men in positions of leadership.
So when I found that community, it was great because it had a huge mix of people: some people had been in the business for decades, some people like me that were new, and I immediately found a safe space where I could find education and collaboration. And also, I could give back over the years that I was partnering with them.
Yeah. It's incredible. I think it's also you learn so much about everything being part of these groups and, and it's always such a reminder that, not only in our industry, but in life, everything is relationships.
Absolutely. And you know, one of the things that I always tell: now I'm very comfortable in a boardroom. I can run a meeting. I understand the protocols. I understand the general structure for committees and boards. But that was not always the case, certainly not when I was 24, newly licensed, playing businesswoman in the suit my grandma bought me.
So getting involved in this group, it was perfect because initially I could watch so I could see how these meetings were being run. I could sit and see something I was not exposed to. I didn't go to business school. I was a theater major, so it definitely helps with my public speaking [but] doesn't always help in a boardroom.
I could see these women who really knew their stuff. I could see the women I really like, “Oh, I want to emulate how she does things.” or “I really like how this is being done.” And so, when asked to take a leadership role, I remember being so surprised. Am I qualified to do this? I have no idea what I'm doing. And everyone was really supportive and so I basically got to learn while growing and helping others all at the same time.
And I wouldn't have had at all the same career path, I think, if I had just attended a few meetings and sat on the sidelines. It's jumping in, volunteering, helping, that really changes things.
Tell us more about that because it really is showing up as a leader–not just an attendee or not just a participant–in these organizations or in whatever we're doing tends to open up the opportunity.
So tell us a little bit more about what that looked like for you as a new agent and then as you kind of grew in your career, how that also continued to kind of push you and propel you forward.
So the year that I started in business was 2008. And for those of you who might not recall, that was the height of America's housing meltdown, the financial crisis. The low mortgages were crumbling apart, people were losing their homes. Everyone thought it was nuts to go into real estate but I figured, “Hey, now is a really great time, because if I can survive now, I can pretty much handle anything.” And if I can't, then I won't be too embarrassed. Everyone will be like, “Of course you weren't successful. Look at what is happening!”
And so, right away the women's council asked if I would hold this position called Membership. I was like, “Well, what does this entail?” And they're like, “Well, we'd like you to promote the organization and try and get new members to join.” And I said, “Okay, no problem.”
So a reminder, I'm probably around 24, 25, depending on when this was happening. And I'm going to just estimate that probably the average member was probably in her mid-fifties.
So sometimes you just don't know what you don't know. I wasn't afraid to try something new. And I was like, great, let's institute monthly happy hours. I'll just call around and find a place who will give us a deal and every month we just have a networking happy hour. And they were so nervous to do this! They were like, “What? Alcohol? Oh, no. Like, I don't know. Like, well, what will the topics be?” And I'm like, no, no, no, no one's speaking. We're just hanging out.
Back then businesses were hurting so they loved it. People who didn't have specials would give us a special. It was incredibly successful! It was just because it was something new and exciting and getting to do that meant that I was meeting lots of people and learning skills.
I'm learning how to throw events. I'm learning how to throw a professional event as opposed to a friend's birthday. I am getting out there in my community. I'm connecting with local businesses.
Then I'm deciding now that I'm doing this and we've got some traction. What businesses do I want to highlight? What partners do I want to bring in? Maybe we want to ask a sponsor. So now I'm doing connections with people that are real estate adjacent. And, it was just like a really quick way to learn the ropes of networking and then also providing to the group a means to get new members. The people were coming to this social event and then “Hey, maybe you should come to one of our official meetings or maybe you should consider joining.”
I always love hearing you talk about “networking” because the way that you network is again so inspirational and aspirational. You do it in a way that’s not networking; it's just connecting. It's just building relationships. It's just making friends.
Yeah. Sometimes I feel like people think networking has to mean like this certain thing. Like, it can't be fun. It's all business. There has to be an action plan and professional business cards!
An agenda!
That is not true! Part of it is just not being afraid to talk to someone. Even as a very extroverted person, sometimes if you walk into a room where you don't know anyone–maybe everyone's really high performing, or you're walking to a room full of politicians or local celebrities–anyone can be intimidated. And the key is just to find that one person to have a little connection, to have a conversation. To me, I always consider networking to genuinely be me meeting new people. I don't have to have a secret agenda and sometimes networking can happen accidentally.
It doesn't matter what I'm doing. It can be a business event. It could be a friend's party. It can be something having to do with my kids. My goal is usually to walk away from said event with at least one person's number in my phone that I want to continue having a conversation with later. And once you do enough of that, that's really what you're doing. You're networking and then you can connect people.
If you go into it honestly just wanting to connect with others, then you meet people from all walks of life.
And sometimes I'm like, all right, now I have a professional medium in my phone. True story. Whenever will I need this? I don't know.
When will you not?!
So you just become a connector. And then obviously this person is amazing. I'm not talking to them about real estate. I'm interested in them, right? I'm going in that to learn about them. I really connected. I enjoyed them. We exchanged numbers and then, she said, “Hey, just a heads up, I shared your information with a group of girlfriends of mine. They might be calling you.” If you go into it truly for that experience or for the other people, people really connect to that and then they want to do the same in return. They want to call back and offer something to you.
What I also love about this is the impact. I love seeing how you have intentionally and unintentionally transformed and translated connection into impact.
What I also love is the way you put yourself into positions that, over the course of many, many years, to connect with people and then turn those connections into impact. And, so I love that you've done that for WCR in the past. You've certainly done it for SFAR. You've certainly done it in your capacity at the state level of our association of realtors.
So I also now want to talk about RISE. RISE, tell the people about RISE. What's RISE?
At our real estate association, we wanted to build a new type of mentorship program. We wanted it to specifically focus on helping newer agents, so three years or less in the business, who were by BIPOC: black indigenous people of color; because while we live in a very diverse city, when you look at the makeup of our realtors–the people that are helping with real estate transaction–it's not nearly as diverse as our city is.
So we created a program that is partnered with a grant. So we fundraise every year. And so the agents get a financial grant for which they can spend however they want on their business. In real estate, that can mean anything from a website to gas money, right? You're driving clients around; gas money is part of your business. And then also to really intentionally give classes and mentorship both on topics they might not receive, from a typical brokerage and also in a safe space that they might not have access to, of like minded agents and colleagues.
We're in our second year of doing that and it has truly been such a pride and joy to have seen it grow. I know that I could not have been as successful as I am now if I did not have an over the top, amazing mentor, my father-in-law. And he absolutely did things that most mentors would not do. I'm only here because somebody provided me with extra help in different ways.
Sometimes that was literally just coming to a listing appointment so that there was an old white man sitting there so that someone would take me seriously. That's not a requirement in a mentor handbook, but that was something that I needed in those early years and he would do it. I didn't have to ask him. He would offer if he got vibes off of a certain person, like, “do you want me to come just sit?” He would not try and take the client. He would guide every question back to me. He would basically answer no questions. He would just be the prop that was necessary to facilitate business.
And that's not necessarily something that we always talk about when you get realtor training. And so, part of what I wanted to incorporate when we were building this program is what are some things that are helpful for these agents that maybe other agents don't have to think about.
It’s really incredible. Personally for you now that it's been almost two years since we've–well, we've been thinking about this project for what feels like a lifetime–
Yes!
But seeing it now kind of come to fruition, what are some takeaways or reflections?
It is incredibly humbling and exciting to watch the cohort, which is what we call the group of agents, how they grow from the beginning to the end of the program.
To see in the beginning most people are nervous, they're unsure, they are often not familiar with public speaking or talking to strangers and these are things you have to be incredibly comfortable with in order to be successful in real estate.
In these meetings we give them many opportunities, like it or not, that they have to speak in front of people to ask questions. It's not just sit down and take notes on this class. It's very interactive and then we purposely bring in very high performing agents in our realtor community so that they get these one-on-one introductions with maybe someone that they wouldn't have access to otherwise. And I think that that is also a really nice part to watch because I also get to watch some of my realtor colleagues that are top producers, high performing agents. And then they get to come in and like teach a class on something that they're passionate about and build these relationships. I get to watch both sides.
I'm really proud of the program that we've put together.
The Realtor’s Role in Their Community
I'm curious to know when you think about RISE, when you think about the RISE cohort, when you think about all of the folks in WCR, when you think about our members at SFAR, at CAR (the California association of realtors), tell us a little bit more about what you think about a realtor's role in their community.
I would say most of the best realtors are truly engaged in their community. It's really hard to do the jobs that we do if you aren't passionate about the place that you live or the place that you are selling property for. People can tell if you're talking and you don't love something or you're not a big fan of an area. They can tell that what you're saying isn't necessarily true. And so finding something that you really love and are passionate about can really help with your career.
I would say that most realtors where we are in the Bay Area, not all of them, but most of them focus on a certain city or a couple of cities like touching, because real estate changes wildly, county to county in the Bay Area.
Then, part of what they're so good at is that they know, maybe they know about the schools, they know about the best restaurants, they know the good places for coffee, all the things that somebody would care about when they buy a home. Those are things that really help you grow your business if you know how to point those things out, how to buy properties that are gonna have these neighborhood amenities. And the only way to learn about these neighborhood amenities is to get out there in those neighborhoods and be engaged.
Yeah. And I always found it so amazing that our job is to, in many ways, help build a neighborhood. Like we're actually literally doing what we can to put people into a neighborhood. And of course the neighborhood is built off of the people that are living there.
Absolutely. Yeah, I always say, and this is very true–although of course I work with many different people–but what I'm truly passionate about is keeping San Franciscans in San Francisco. So I mentioned before, it can be a very expensive place to live. And sometimes you can grow up here and housing situations can change. And then all of a sudden, “Oh my gosh, I don't know if I can afford to live here anymore.” And so one of the things that I'm so passionate about is if you love it here, you've been living here, you want to stay here:
What are all the programs that I can point you to that'll help keep you here?
What can we do to help pivot you into something that you can afford?
Sometimes the answer isn't like, you need to buy right now. Sometimes it's like, great, I know this person who's renting out their in-law. Let's get you in there so you can start saving up that money. We're putting you on a five year plan, so you get a great cheap rental.
You can't just be attached immediately to the paycheck or the outcome. I know that's how realtors are usually portrayed in movies and television but the best of us out there, we are really there to support the person and we're in it for the long game.
And so, sometimes what is best is I'm telling someone, “Okay, you shouldn't sell this house,” or “You should absolutely rent for another few years,” or “ I know you want this dreamy Instagram-worthy house, but maybe we should buy this dump over here. Let's think about how much it's going to appreciate in five years and then you can go buy that dreamy Instagram house.”
How to Engage in your Community
I love it. What are some things you would say to encourage others to be more engaged in their communities? It could be specific to how you would encourage realtors to continue to engage, but it could also extend to anyone else.
Part of the reason that I'm in so much leadership is I'm a big proponent of “If you don't like something, change it.” Don't complain about it. Actually go change it. Complaining is very easy. We can all complain.
And it's not to say that I don't ever complain, but generally if I'm like, “Gosh, I loved this playground growing up. It was fantastic. And now, it's so torn up. I'm nervous about my kids getting tetanus on the play structure.” You know, write a letter to your supervisor. I've been in the city a long time. I now know several of my friends work at Park and Rec. Like, hey, who do I have to bug to get this on the list? What do we need to do here to help?
Or even sometimes maybe I'm not going to change that playground, but I'm going to be at that playground with another parent. And I'll be like, “Hey, I don't love the blah, blah, blah here. Like I've been trying to find another park.” And they'll be like, “Oh, have you been to this and this around the corner?”
So maybe I'm not going to fix that one park, but I'm engaging with a neighbor who's there. We have the same kind of issues. They're helping me with one thing. I'm helping them with something. That's just kind of how it all works.
Oh my gosh, Vanessa, I adore you for so many reasons.
Aw, likewise, Kenny.
And one of the things that I think I want to close out this conversation with, is to just share how deeply I appreciate how, yes, you embody this deep sense of connection to community, connection to people, connection to place.
And also what you're talking about is like, if you're not, if you're upset with something, change it and also because of that opportunities will open up.
And to see you in these amazing leadership positions, impacting community, being a possibility model–like that possibility model concept–I just always think of you about, right ‘cause you are someone who has taken the leadership and done it and shown up and now you're having direct impact, but also the indirect impact of all of these people after you who are able to say, “Oh my gosh, well, you know about Vanessa, right?” Like you know Vanessa's story. Like look what has happened when someone is so committed to being involved and engaged in their community and how that could lead them to these incredible places.
Thank you. Thank you.
You're welcome. You're welcome. Well, I've loved this conversation: enlightening, thought provoking. I love all my conversations with Vanessa and I am very blessed that I get to have a lot of them. Of course, we can continue to talk about everything, but I just love this conversation about community and the importance of it.
And, Vanessa, where can folks find you?
I am on Instagram. I'm going to tell my age now. I have not changed my handle since it was my AOL handle. You can search me on Instagram using my name, Vanessa Gamp. You will find my handle is @kurlieeegirlie. It's easier to search my name, Vanessa Gamp.
Well, I have loved this conversation. Find Vanessa, of course, at @kurlieeegirlie or Vanessa Gamp, anywhere online. And you can find us at willowmar.com or on Instagram at @thoughtfulrealtor.
Reach out to us directly. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and leave us a five star review. We always appreciate when you share the love and until next time, bye!
Bye bye!
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