Episode 62: Networking and Cultivating Connections with Cliff and Sam
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Hello and welcome to the Thoughtful Realtor Podcast. This is a podcast where we sit down for insights, stories, and conversations about all things real estate, running a real estate team here in California, and how we find our way as leaders and business partners.
I'm Cliff Tsang, one of the founders of Willowmar Real Estate, and for today's episode, I am so excited for y'all to meet Sam Young. She’s an agent on our team and we are here to talk about building and maintaining a solid network.
As a little bit of a background, Sam is a Bay area native who grew up in Palo Alto and currently resides in San Francisco. When not doing real estate, you could find Sam at Dolores Park, playing with her two fur babies or leading workout classes, since she's also a certified personal trainer.
And fun fact, Sam was Kenny's first client and one of my first clients as well. And she got a real estate license before all of us. So I'm excited to have Sam on the pod today. And honestly, this is just such a topic that resonates so well with Sam, because I feel like she has done such an incredible job networking.
So maybe to kick things off, Sam, how do you define your network? How do you think about making distinctions between personal network versus professional network?
Thanks, Cliff, for such a warm intro. I am very excited to talk about networking in general. When I was in corporate in my past life, I had very separate personal and professional networks. I always stayed true to myself and friendly, of course, but definitely had a delineation between the two. Now that I do real estate full time, I find that those lines are pretty blurred, which can definitely actually be an advantage since the people you know in your personal network cross over into seeing you work professionally too, and that's so rare to see one person as a whole.
Usually you see them in your personal life or usually you see them professionally, but to actually see someone do all of that is actually really fascinating.
Yeah, and maybe let's stay on that topic for a second here. I'm just curious because I think I mentioned to you earlier that in my past life working in tech too, I often felt that there's that select group of people that you let into the inner circle to see both sides, the professional and personal side.
I'm curious, how did you navigate that? You said you delineated between the two and there's on and off. What are some thoughts that come up about that? How did you even think about who to let into that inner circle to see both sides?
Yeah, that's such a good question, Cliff. I think all of us do this pretty naturally when we're working. We usually start out very professional, I would say, generally speaking, if you're meeting someone at your work. And then as you get to know them better and better, maybe you identified that “I would like to hang out with them outside of work.” I have shared common interests. Maybe I invite them to work out with me. Maybe I invite them to go wine tasting and just hang out.
So I do feel like there's, like you said, there's only a few people who usually cross those lines. Maybe you'll go to happy hour with the rest of your professional network, but hanging out one-on-one might be a little different outside of that type of professional setting.
And I feel like those people who do end up crossing the line also get to see into your life a little bit more and they get to share their lives a little bit more. So maybe I'll talk about family or friends or things that are a little bit deeper than you would in just a work setting.
Yeah, those are such good tips. And I feel like that really makes a lot of sense in terms of finding those common kinds of bonds and interests and then starting to build up on that. Let's talk about that a little bit too. I'm curious when you think about your network, how would you describe what kind of network do you have and – it relates to that last question – how do you think about going to build that network?
Yeah, I would say, as you touched on earlier, I, especially during my lunch party, you saw I have a very diverse network – lots of friends, lots of family, people I meet at activities or events. And honestly, sometimes I've met this person once and just followed them on Instagram and just watched their lives unfold.
Or, if they happen to be visiting San Francisco, maybe I'll message them and be like, “Hey, I saw you're in SF. Let's meet up.” Even though I might've met them once, I do think the building of the network has not always been entirely intentional. I talked to a lot of people whenever, wherever, about whatnot. And one of the things I find is that I'm actually genuinely interested in making connections with others and not necessarily just trying to sell them on something. It's really that I want to get to know them.
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head there. I feel like that's something that I've thought about a lot too. It's like building relationships and building your network. I think if you're showing up wanting something or trying to take from that, people can smell that and people will know that.
So I just love what you said there about really just not having an intention, right? You're just there to be just genuinely curious to get to know them. And it's funny you bring up your launch event. I was just surprised in a good way by all the different people that showed up to support you.
It was like I remember people from different past jobs, friends that you had met, just from all walks of life, and it was just abundantly clear that throughout the years, you've built some really deep connections with folks, so that was really neat to see. Let's talk about that a little bit, about staying connected with people.
So what do you do to stay in touch with people and to make sure that you're connected with them?
Yeah, I generally like to connect with people based on interests or common ground, usually something we've talked about before. And so if there's something that reminds me of them, like a meme, a photo, an item that I saw in a store, a video or whatnot, I'll actually just send it to them.
Sometimes I don't think twice about it and they're like, “Oh, this reminded me of you,” with zero context, but usually because we've talked about it before. They usually respond and they’re like, “Oh my God, I was so excited. That's something that I was looking at too.” Or “I just saw that and thought of you also.
Sometimes, if I know their background, I'll shoot them a message. There was one time my mom and I were debating if cheese curds that are on poutine fried or not, or actually fried cheese or not. And we were–
They are, right?
They're actually…
Oh, no.
Sam: Yeah, so we were discussing this over dinner, and I immediately texted my Canadian friend to ask her – zero context almost – but I was like, “hey, you're Canadian, are cheese curds fried?” And she actually texted me back immediately, and yes – spoiler alert, Cliff – they are not fried, they are curdled milk that are supposed to be a little squeaky, which I'm still not quite sure what squeaky means, but that's the answer I got from a Canadian.
So it must be true.
Exactly.
Yeah, I feel like I thought that they were fried because of the squeakiness, but I guess they're not related. I think they make that little noise when you bite into them. It's like a little creaky cheese. It makes it sound worse than it is but it's fun.
Yeah, although she did caveat that you could probably fry them, so they could be fried too. But that's not technically cheese curds.
So in that case, to drive it home, it sounds like in those moments you're just reaching out to that person to connect with them and they might not have context as to what you're exactly saying, but that's also how you build that connection with them.
They might be out at the park; they might be getting a beer with a friend or whatnot, and they get a text from Sam and they're like, “Oh my gosh, I wasn't thinking about Sam in this moment, but then I get this hilarious text.” And then from there, they're like, “Oh my gosh, Sam was thinking about me.” All the good feels come up and that's how you deepen that relationship.
Yeah, I would say so, and again, I think we touched on it before, is [that] it’s not intentional like to sell them something or to say, “Hey, remember me?” It's usually because I thought of them.
What tends to happen too is I tend to send messages like this with almost zero context but obviously know that it's something they relate to. And then when we meet up in person, they'll usually bring it up and say, “What was going on with that, with those cheese curds?” Then usually I explain, or sometimes they'll text me back and just say, “LOL, why?” But it is one of those conversation starters that I do find that maybe I haven't talked to them in six months, but it's because I thought of them.
Yeah. Oh, I love that. It's funny because those are the most endearing and fun texts that I receive, but I feel like I should be the sender of them more often. I think sometimes I get in my own head. I'm like, “Oh this person [might] think I'm weird,” or “what are they doing right now? Am I bothering them?”
But if you really think about it, a friend or an acquaintance that you want to get to know more, they want to know those kinds of quirky questions and get to know you. And that's like a good way for them to get to know you.
Yeah, and I'm pretty weird, Cliff, but I would say, they are connected with you because they know you and they like you and they love the weirdness, they love the strange conversations that they've had with you and, everyone has their own little things, so I would say don't be scared to reach out and just send those random text messages.
That's so good. Yeah, I think that's like the mindset shift. I think for someone like you, who's a superb networker, you have that right mindset around it already. “This is how they get to know me. I get to show more of Sam to them through this text, and then they get to see who I am.”
Let's switch gears a little bit. I'm curious, talking about more formal networking, like maybe in terms of settings like at work, or if there's a networking event, or if there's a conference that you're going to: Do you have any thoughts on proper networking – etiquette or rules to follow in those more formal networking settings?
Yes, I would say the number one thing is to definitely read the room and the situation, especially when you don't know anyone or most of those people. If it's purely a professional setting, stay professional until you get to know someone, what their interests and their humor is like. Going back to the corporate, professional versus personal, a lot of those professional contacts don't cross that delineation line and there's a few select who do.
So just keep that in mind too when you're at a professional networking event. Like I can stay friendly, without being over the top or sharing all of my personal escapades that aren't quite matching the setting. And I might still ask about cheese curds if I find someone who's Canadian, but I might not just ask without context.
I would bring up a little bit more context. I would probably not ask them about necessarily what the squeakiness is or probably not even get that answer. I would definitely stay more professional until you get to know someone.
Another rule I live by is to actually stay really genuine and authentic. Cliff, you touched on this too earlier. If you're trying to be a chameleon and get along with everyone and try to sell them something, it will show. That's one of the things that I notice is when someone is really trying to put on some sort of front and it makes me a little suspicious to say, “What are you trying to get out of me?”
So it puts people on their guard. I would say just stay who you are. Be you. People who want to get to know you for you will. And so don't necessarily sacrifice who you are as a person to try and make connections that probably in the end won't even be all that genuine. Just keep that in mind.
And then the last rule, I can't tell you what the specific formula percentage is, but I'm sure you've all heard the advice to make sure you're asking questions and really listening to another person, which is really good to do. But the other piece I find that's super helpful is to also share – share your thoughts, share some of your experiences, et cetera. Don't dominate the conversation, but make sure you share things about yourself, because if you're only listening, then it's really hard for them to also get to know who you are. And then it might be a one-way connection where you know them so well, but they know nothing about you. And so it's hard for them to reconnect with you, especially if you're trying to send them those random messages or random memes, they might be like, we never talked about this. So just keep that in mind as well.
Yeah, that's so good. I think related to that, what was coming to mind as you're talking about that that really resonated with me [was] talking about authenticity and also making sure that you're sharing too, because I think a lot of people fall into the trap of asking questions a lot. Like I'm a question master. My friends say that I ask way too many questions and then you get into this routine where – it’s exactly what you said – people feel like I got to know them. But then at the end of the conversation, they're like, “Oh wait, I actually didn't get to know Cliff.”
And then that didn't feel like a two way street. And I think part of what you're saying there too is like, as I've, over the years, I think gotten better at building relationships is this aspect of being present as well, because that authenticity and being present allows you to not be afraid of sharing, but also not be afraid of asking more questions. The questions can lead to more sharing, and the sharing can lead to more questions, and it can really deepen that bond, even if you're only meeting them for a few minutes or 20 minutes, or an hour at a cocktail party.
Other methods of networking? I'm wondering, do you think about networking online versus offline and how do you compare the two?
Just for our audience members, network online: meaning like social media and Instagram, Facebook, online connections, and then offline is IRL as they say in real life connections. And how do you think about those two?
Yeah, I feel like I actually use social media a lot, specifically Instagram. One, because it's content based. And two, because you can actually network or connect with multiple people at once a lot easier. So if I find a meme or a reel, I'll send it to multiple people at once because I thought of them or I thought it was funny and they would think it was funny too.
And so that's like an easier way to do things. It's also a lot less formal and so I find it's a little more casual of a conversation. A lot of times I don't actually have someone's phone number and I'll have their Instagram. I also feel like it's less of a burden / less of a requirement to respond to something on that, like you can just “heart” a reel instead of actually having to respond to it. So I feel like it's kind of a low key way to connect with people without them making it feel like it's so formal. “Oh, I have to respond to this text.”
I also comment on a lot of stories and posts. If anyone's ever seen me follow them on instagram, I like every single post and my friends laugh because they're like, “You like everything.”
I'm the same way too. I feel like some people are very not greedy. They don't give, they don't dish out the likes.
Yeah.
They're like, “Oh, this doesn't meet the bar of giving a like,” and that's always the weirdest thing to me. When I'm scrolling Instagram, I just like everything that I see. Isn't that what you're supposed to do if they're your friends?
Yeah, exactly.
People are like, “Ooh, that one was not a good enough photo.” I'm like, that is weird to me. I don't know. I've done it occasionally, but very rarely.
Actually, Cliff, you do like everything. I see you a lot. Yeah, you like everything, too.
It’s free to give likes.
Exactly. It cost me nothing but a double tap to someone's post. But I also love stories. Stories are also super fun. They're also less formal. They're also super fun to comment on, like you might see someone who shows up in your hometown or might actually be in the same place with you.
I think I was traveling, maybe it was Chicago or New York and one of my friends happened to post that they were there too and we started commenting on it and we actually met up. We haven't seen each other in a couple of years and we actually ended up meeting up in a city neither of us live in because of Instagram.
That is so cool. I was going to ask you kind of about positive experiences through social media, networking, and all that so that sounds like a really positive experience. I'm curious, do you have something on the other side where it's like a horror story or something that didn't go well from networking?
Oh man, I probably have a lot of horror stories. I'm weird. I have a lot of strange interests and I get passionate about certain things. And sometimes I feel like I come on too strong about what I'm passionate about. But I don't know if I have any horror stories. I would say that one of the things I learned long ago, or maybe actually very recently, is that you will think about things you say or did a lot more than other people will, and you'll ruminate on them over and over again. You might not be able to sleep over stuff or worry about stuff. And I think one of the best things to do is just take it, learn from it, and forgive yourself with grace and say, “I might've said something a little bit weird to this person,” but we all make mistakes. And to say, “That was something I did,” and learn from it.
You know if they don't want to be friends after that or they don't want to connect with you after, that's okay. This is part of who you are as a person and you'll do something differently maybe next time or maybe you won't. Maybe it's “Oh, actually, I like that weird part of me.”
I do think that, trying to pull up horror stories, hopefully I don't really have any or I don't –
No, I love it because I think one thing that I'm hearing really loud and clear from you is like the path to building authentic relationships is being authentic to yourself. And so maybe the horror stories to your point are like, even if something goes wrong, that was you being you and testing something out and trying to connect with someone.
And maybe you said something weird, but it wasn't weird to you, it was maybe weird to them. So that's why it's not really a horror story. It's just finding out that person isn't going to be a BFF or a really good friend to you. And that's okay because there's billions of other people in the world that you can move on and not move on to, but build relationships with.
I'm changing my answer to what Cliff just said.
And I don't want to gloss over it. I did want to just call it for folks who are listening to the podcast to rewind and listen to the part where Sam was talking about networking online versus offline, because I feel like those were such good nuggets that you shared and the nuances of online networking.
I feel like I need to send that to my parents because I think for them, they might not know the intricacies of the differences between – they're not on Instagram, but they're on Facebook – and how to use that. You talked about the double click [which] is just like a really nice way to respond to a message, and it's a very kind of low barrier to connect with people.
I think that was really insightful because I think sometimes I treat Instagram messages like a text message and maybe that's also where there's a discrepancy in my communication style where I'm too formal on Instagram because I'm treating it like a text.
Alright, a couple final questions here. What are your thoughts on networking for those who are introverts or prefer smaller group settings?
Interestingly enough maybe in the past five years, I've taken Myers Briggs before and I actually came out as very introverted and then maybe in the past five years, now I'm more extroverted so I –
You flipped from introvert to extrovert?
Yeah.
I feel like I've heard a lot of people going the opposite way. Extrovert in their younger years and then becoming more introverted. I feel that's true for me.
Oh, interesting. Cliff, we’ll have to delve into that. But yeah, I flipped from introvert to extrovert, which maybe came with age, maybe it came with trying more things, so I definitely feel this for those who are introverted currently and prefer those small group settings. My advice is do something you're interested in, join a running club, attend a cooking class, put yourself out there, travel and meet people, and when you have something to talk about, when you have a common interest, that immediately lets you connect with the other person over that.
And being passionate about something actually really says a lot. It's helpful to say, “I never knew how to make noodles from scratch and now I do.” I have a KitchenAid, but I've never used it and it sits on my counter but now I know how to attach the pasta attachment now. Things like that are really good for introverts.
I think one of the things I did was I joined a yoga studio. [I’m] not good at yoga.
Ritual Hot Yoga? San Francisco?
Ritual, yes! Ritual Hot Yoga in San Francisco and Chicago. I'm not great at yoga and they always say it's a practice, not a perfection but I ended up going on one of their yoga retreats.
My friend ended up bailing. I was terrified, but I had already signed up so I couldn't get the deposit back. So I ended up going, not knowing anyone. It pushed me out of my comfort zone so much, but I met so many good friends that I actually meet them around the world a lot of the time.
I don't even live in the same city and we'll meet internationally and we connected over yoga. And that's one of the common interests, so I highly recommend to just don't go to networking events to just network. Go to something that you are actually interested in.
That is such a key tip. Yeah, I think I've been the victim or I've been that person who's gone to a networking event for something that I don't really care about. And then you're just faking it. You're not authentic. You're just not yourself. I recently went to a trading card convention, like a basketball trip and something that I used to be really passionate about as a middle school kid. And I found myself really curious and walking around and asking a lot of questions and it felt a lot of fun and it sparked that kind of joy, so I completely hear you on that.
And Cliff, how many connections did you make out of the networking event versus the trading card event?
Actually funny enough, at the trading card event there were a few people, while I was waiting in line, that we exchanged Instagram handles. Not that we're super in touch, but we still like each other's posts here and there. We're somewhat in touch.
For the conference where I had no interest in, I can't even remember one person that I met even though I spent more time at that conference. I just think people can smell that on you when you're just there to be there, when you're just passively going through life.
Start sending memes and reels to those.
Oh yeah. I need to up my meme gate. That's also one of my takeaways.
So let's wrap up here and Sam, I'd love for you to share kind of your top pieces of advice for folks for building and maintaining your network.
Yeah, number one, definitely be yourself, be genuine, be authentic, be you. And then number two, balance that listening and asking questions with the sharing so that they can also get to know you. Send those memes, send those reels, find that common interest, which is number three. Find that common ground and just make those genuine connections, cause That's going to give you lifetime, hopefully lifetime, connections, friends, and hopefully they'll turn into friends and not just be necessarily your professional network, but really you'll get to know them as a whole person. And vice versa.
So good. Thank you, Sam.
Sam, thank you so much for being a guest on today's episode and sharing your insights and stories about networking. We tend to have a lot of all sorts of different ways of thinking about networking, so it's just fun to sit down and talk about how to network effectively and thoughtfully.
And to our listeners, we'd love to hear about you and your own networking strategies. So please let us know what's worked for you and what hasn't, especially if you're an introvert.
You can find Sam at @hell0sammi, and you can find us at willowmar.com or on Instagram @thoughtfulrealtor, or just reach out to us directly. And if you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. We read each and every one of your reviews and appreciate when you share the love. And so until next time, bye!
Thanks! Bye!
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