Episode 58: Surprising Skills for Success
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Hello and welcome to The Thoughtful Realtor Podcast. I'm Connie Chung,
I'm Cliff Tsang.
And I'm Kenny Gong. And we are the founders and partners of Willowmar Real Estate.
And this is a real estate podcast where we get real personal.
Every episode, we sit down for insights, stories, and conversations about things in the market today, running a real estate team here in California, and finding our way as leaders and business partners.
Today's episode is on surprising skills that have helped us thrive as entrepreneurs and business owners, as realtors, or maybe just in life. Surprising, unexpected skills. Cliff, what are the skills that you were surprised to know that you were good at?
The answer that comes to mind is managing our finances. And it's a little bit of an odd answer because I grew up very inclined—I enjoyed math, and personal finances are still a hobby of mine, so something that I enjoy doing. But I think the reason why I was a little bit surprised at it and feeling pretty comfortable stepping into that role as our team has gotten bigger—and now we have commissions to think through and finances and all of that normally, you have a back office helping with—is because I have battle scars from one of my first jobs ever, which was working in investment banking. And the reason why I have battle scars from that was: I was not cutting it and effectively not being good at that job.
So, I think I have just some PTSD and lost a lot of confidence in that situation just because it was a … it was a tough work environment. Everyone was very, very, very smart; very, very motivated. And it was kind of a relative thing. You know, if you’re this small fish in a big pond, you can feel very, very small, and I was just getting in my head a lot.
So, it was a nice realization in the last couple of years, and confidence booster, to go: “Actually, yeah, I can do this.”
To be with Connie and I, where our skills are far, far below.
I'm killing it with Willowmar finances.
What about you, Con?
One skill that comes to mind that is surprising: I always find myself as a shy person, but I think the skill that comes out of that is just being a really keen observer. So, whenever we meet someone new or I'm at an open house or meeting clients for the first time or just meeting people at a party or social gathering—being able to read people and get in tune with what they might be thinking and how to speak to that.
And so, say for example, we're meeting with a couple, and one partner is very talkative and the other one is really quiet. I've learned to lean into actually pulling from the quiet person and trying to pull them in. And so, I think because I am really good at being able to feel or sense what other people might be thinking, in trying to create a very active team culture or welcoming team environment it's really important for me that I try to pull in people. Especially those who might be shy, or quiet, or may not feel as comfortable in trying to create an environment where they do feel comfortable and to be themselves or to speak up or to share their thoughts.
That's always so shocking for me to hear when you say in social settings, sometimes you don't feel super comfortable, Con. You're just always like the life of the party, so good at socializing.
No, it's also because I hate awkward silences. So I'm like, “Okay, let's build this up.”
It's a good one. It's a really, really good skill and a powerful skill to have. To be able to read a room, to be able to get a pulse, you know, to understand the tenor and the energy of the room is huge. It's huge.
What about you, Kenny?
A skill that I am surprised—you know, I don't know if I'm actually good at this skill that I'm going to mention …
Oh, now you're—
But one that I really enjoy and have an interest in is: I really like thinking about process and I really like thinking about breaking down a project or something that we're doing into the nitty-gritty details.
And I'm not necessarily—I don't know if I'm necessarily a detail-oriented person to an extreme degree. I think, generally speaking, we're all fairly detail-oriented and have high standards for very small details, but I really like thinking through the puzzle of: “How do you put something together?” And, this manifests in me getting into our project management team system and platform.
We use Asana on our team and for a lot of our projects. And it just gets that—I don't know if it's the right side of the brain going where it feels very analytical. I spend a lot of my time on the other side, the left-side brain, thinking about emotions and thinking about people.
And so, to have that other opportunity to think about: “How do I piece together something that is like a puzzle or sort of has a sequence and unfolding of a process?” That has been something that I've really appreciated and again, I don't know if I'm good at it, but it's something that I appreciate and have a deep interest in.
You're very good at the process. And I'm always amazed when we're in a partner meeting or in a lot of meetings, the questions that you come up with, in helping to delve into, coming up with a process for something. Or finding out what the best solution might be. Your probing questions or your further exploratory questions are really insightful.
Yeah. Yeah, aw, thanks. Okay, so surprising or unexpected skills that you didn't realize would be helpful or useful to your life as an entrepreneur or as a business owner, or even as a realtor. What are some things that come up for y'all?
I'll go first. I had one, I don't know if this is a skill, but the answer that came to mind was surrounding yourself—like environment, effectively. And I think this is something that I've only experienced—actually, yeah, really, in working with you two—has made me understand the importance in the sense that picking the people that you surround yourself with might be one of the most important key indicators for someone's success.
And what I mean by that is, I think, between the three of us, we have really complementary skill sets, and that just makes things a lot easier for each of us as individuals. Because, I think the stuff that—how my brain doesn't work, I don't really think in terms of marketing terms, I know I'm not as people-oriented as Kenny—and so I think we've then found paths where we can feel very in flow and work on our strengths and collectively make the organization stronger.
Yeah, the environment piece is: I guess it is a skill for people to know how to put themselves in a better environment. But I remember hearing a lot from health coaches, they say if you want to lose weight, what is it in your environment? Do you have potato chips around? Do you have soda around? Otherwise, it requires willpower to say no every time you walk past your kitchen. The easiest thing is just not have those in your kitchen at all. And it's kind of the same thing with surrounding yourself with good people. It just elevates you without you having to constantly think about elevating yourself.
Yeah. What's also interesting about being surrounded by people with complementary skills, I also think about complementary energies. And maybe it's because we're all just generally empathic people or people that are sensitive to energies. But, I find that that's such a huge, huge thing that I also didn't realize was so important or useful is to figure out: what's someone bringing to the table in terms of skills, but also what is in that essential energy? What might be fundamental to their personality that they bring to the table that can also have a huge impact.
Energy is so huge. Yeah, it's hard to articulate it, too.
Mm hmm.
You just feel it. Yeah, speaking of energy, I think of my dad's energy and I'm like, “Oh, my dad and I are so opposite.” But one skill that I've picked up from him that has become a really pleasant surprise is: I think just not taking no for an answer, or there's always a workaround or a solution.
It's kind of that can-do “we'll figure out a way” mentality, you know, the immigrant mentality where there was no path created for you. So, you just have to create your own. And I think it's a lot about being resourceful and the flip side to that, I think, is sometimes I will take the challenge on as if, “Oh, it's my fault.”
So, because, because I feel like there has to be a solution, so I can come up with the solution. So, sometimes it is a heavy weight to carry, but it's always because there's a workaround, we can fix it, we can solve it. And so it's just …
Mm hmm.
“All right, let's, let's figure it out” mentality.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's important, yeah. It's just: you gotta do it. You gotta get it done. How are you going to get it done? I think for me, one skill that I should have realized was important and helpful, but didn't until I had to is: the malleability of your own skills. And how so much of our job, especially as entrepreneurs and business owners and company founders, and yes, as realtors as well, is your success is so built off your ability to continue learning and continue growing. It’s the skill of learning and the skill of refining the skills that you may not be very, very strong in.
And I think that is a skill in itself, right? To be able to do that learning and to be able to do that evolution. And I always think about how I am such a different person now than I was three years ago, five years ago, especially 10 years ago.
And the skill sets that I use now, especially as a founder and the company owner, are so different than the skills that I used as just an agent. It's been hard to develop those skills because it's things that are not necessarily innate to me or skills that … I feel uncertainty around or doubtful of in my abilities. But being able to just dive in there and do it; and just try it on and figure out. That kind of meta skill I think is to me the most important thing that I didn't really understand until I was in the position of how helpful and important it is.
That reminds me of: there's a personal growth, I think, self-help author—his name's Adam Grant—who's become really popular. Oh, you've heard? Yeah, and his book that came out recently called Think Again about that exact same premise, Kenny, that one's “success” in life will be largely determined by their ability to relearn skills, to rethink and think over and over again.
Because you're right, it's kind of funny. Sometimes I think about life and it feels like there's actually no point in life where “that is what it is,” and it just remains stagnant. Because I just think about even what you said in the last few years how Willowmar has grown; but also, Mee-Sun and I are now expecting in July. And, I'm going to need to adapt because my way of living my life now will not work with a baby here.
And then, once you have a kid, and I'm sure Connie can speak to this the best, it's like the kid is constantly evolving or you have multiple kids. So you as a parent constantly need to adapt and evolve. Maybe that's just how life is. It's just a constant evolution process, and we all need to move.
The only constant is change.
Yes. Yes.
Yeah.
On that note, what is the most underrated or least recognized skill in the realm of entrepreneurship?
The one that comes to mind for me—it's similar to what Connie was saying: just being able to keep at it. And I don't want to say keep at the grind, but there is this element of consistency that is very much needed in entrepreneurship because, if you wake up every single day with the mindset of, “Hey, how can I make this organization or what I'm doing one percent better in a month, in a year, in three years?” You'll look back and have accomplished quite a bit.
But I think it takes a really different type of person to be able to do that day in and day out, because otherwise, there can be a lot of burnout and it could just be a very tiring journey.
Mm hmm.
Part of my response is that tiring burnout because it's grit. I think having grit—it's so much of entrepreneurship that we don't see because we hear a lot of the success stories and what's on social media and things just seem so great and so perfect.
But so much behind that is … it's not pretty. And it's just a lot of trial and error and trying to do multiple things at once, figuring out what works, trying to put the kid to sleep while answering a call and write up a contract. And it's just all the things! And to be okay with that and to want it.
And I think that's grit. It's not just being in it, but having that inner drive to push you through all of it when it's tough. Because when it's tough, it also makes the celebrating so much more worthwhile.
I love that Cliff says this often, but the shifting mindset of “I have to do something” versus “I get to do something.” I think that speaks to that where you're putting the kid down, you're writing up the offer, and you're dealing with all kinds of other things.
And, I love that reframe that you had just mentioned, which is, “Oh, but then, I get to write offers, I get to be of service to these people and they are writing an offer on a home and I get to spend time with my kid and I get to see them grow and I get to see them or I get to spend time with them and put them to rest and what a joyous kind of ...”
And being able to navigate all of that, it takes a lot of grit and a lot of consistency.
I had to put the “I get to” mindset and practice it the other night. It was an eight or nine pm disclosure packet review on the weekend. And “I get to”—that helped.
You know, what would have really helped even more is if you ratified the contract, which … I don't know. Did you?
TBD.
Oh, TBD. TBD. Okay. Yeah. You know, I think I didn't recognize how much of entrepreneurship is working with people. For some reason, when I thought about entrepreneurship in the past, it was much more like: you're working, you're grinding, you're doing all these things and you're building and you're thinking and you're strategizing and all of ... You're putting in the work. And I didn't understand how crucial it is that a really good entrepreneur is also working with a team of other people and navigating those relationships.
And navigating all of those conversations that you have with people is so crucial and has such a ripple effect and such a deep impact on my efficacy as a leader is so, so, so dependent on my relationships and the way that I show up in conversations, especially the tough, critical conversations that I have with all the people on my team. Or with you all as co-leaders of this organization, all of that.
It's something that I really didn't understand and embody until we were in it and we were having those conversations and I was like, oh, gosh, I spent so much time thinking about not only how do I have a conversation but trying to understand where someone is coming from, trying to meet them where they're at, trying to follow up a conversation so that people feel heard and understood and validated and appreciated.
All of those things, I think, are so, so, so important. And yeah. And I also just really appreciate that I am slowly, slowly, slowly getting … maybe not? I don't know if I'm getting better at them, but I'm creating space to work on those skills.
Tell us a moment where you had a skill you didn't think wasn't that important, but it turned out to be something that actually had a significant effect on your life or career.
I have one that I can share. This—something I've been working on for the last, I don't know, six to 12 months. So, the thing that I didn't think was that was important was, for lack of a better word, softness in your communication and empathy.
I think I came from ... it’s such a basketball reference, but the Kobe Bryant Mamba mentality. You know: “my way or the highway.” The way, you know, “I’m going to be who I am, and I’m not going to change who I am. I'm just going to be hard charging.” And the change in perspective that I had in the last six to 12 months came from Liz, whom I've talked about before. Liz Coleman, my communications coach, and her asking some really good questions like “Well, what is your goal of communicating? If you're if you're saying it in this hard charging way—my way or the highway—what are you trying to get out of it?”
And I said, “Well, I'm trying to communicate with people. I'm trying to connect with them. I'm trying to get them to see my viewpoint.”
And she was like, “Well, do you think what you're doing is accomplishing that in the best way?”
And it was kind of a self-realization moment that there's other ways to lead, there are better ways to communicate. And it's not to try to trick people to get to see, it's the common goal of trying to connect with them. And that's been a huge a-ha moment for me. Because it applies to Willowmar and how I'm trying to connect with people on the team and chat with people, but also in other aspects of my life too, just relationship with my sister, Mee-Sun. And rethinking what we're talking about with Adam Grant. It's like thinking through “How can I relearn this thing of communication and find a better path going forward.”
Anything come to mind for you, Con?
Yeah, I think two parts. I am very humble to a fault, but I think it does help me actually take feedback well and learn from it. And I know, sometimes, when I'm getting feedback, I could get: one, very insecure and like, “Oh my goodness, what did I do wrong?” Or then just like get defensive like, so-and-so can do something better or whatnot.
But I think it's taking into being very being humble and being of the growth mindset. Of course, I can always be doing better. I can always learn. I can always grow. And so that really does help me to absorb what the feedback is and then really try to put it into action or learn from it and grow from it.
So I think, especially as a leader, because sometimes I think we're taught—or we were supposed to know all the answers, but we really don't. And just embracing that with humility and grace and a positive attitude, I think, really does go a long way in growing as leaders and growing a company.
Yeah. What's a quick piece of advice that you would give to folks to uncover skills to develop skills. Anything related to building skills?
I love—and I probably mentioned this on our podcast before—the book StrengthsFinder 2.0. And you don't have to read the book. You can just buy the book because it comes with a very thorough assessment and it pulls out your strengths. And some of them you may not have even thought you had, or you've known you had, but maybe didn't see them as a strength. And I think that one is super insightful and I highly recommend taking that assessment.
Okay. StrengthsFinder 2.0.
There might be new ones.
What about you?
I love the emphasis on the 2.0. Yeah, it's gotten better since 1.
Exactly.
I don’t know! I got it in college. So that was, gosh, over a decade ago … more. So, there might even be a whole new evolution.
Yeah. There might be a 3.0. They took their feedback. What about you, Cliff?
I think this might be a weird one, but this is what's coming to mind. I like soliciting feedback from friends and family. So, I feel like it's important for people to have … I remember hearing this quote from Kevin Systrom, the founder of Instagram. He said one of his cherished relationships is all of his friends who will call him out on his bullshit, and I think that's sometimes important—I don't know the path. It's not like “Grab coffee, I want you to tell me all the stuff that you think I could get better at.”
But I think finding out who those people in your life are that will actually be critical but also supportive … I think that is someone's best path to grow. Because actually, your decent friends won't tell you those things. It's only your really good friends who care about you who will talk to you about those things. It's like the friends that will tell you that you have stuff in your teeth. Not everyone will.
Yeah. My advice would be to give space to reflect on what skills you're working on. And the ones that you're developing and that reflection oftentimes looks like journaling, I think it’s great too, if you're a journaler, to actually write down things that you're thinking about, things that you're working on; examples of how they may relate to some of the skills that you're working on, your experiences …
Because, I also think that for me, what I've seen is is like those moments when things just happen, where suddenly you're like, “Oh my gosh, this thing that I've been working on has manifested in this kind of way.” And if you don't have a have a way or a space to be able to process that manifestation or a process how you're growing, you can lose track of it.
And I like talking about skills. I like writing about skills and coaching on skills, having those people that I think, similar to what Cliff is talking about, having people that you can be honest with and candid with when it comes to things that you're working on.
Yeah. I've heard of something akin to having a personal board of directors. Well!
Mm. Yep.
I think that's a great wrap up.
And I just love that we got to have a conversation about skills here and also discover some of the skills that we may have not realized that we had, or skills that we've grown into. And, I always appreciate these times that we can reflect on that and share with each other because sometimes … actually, even the three of us—even however close we are and however many hours we spend with each other a week—don't have a chance to think about these things and share with each other.
So, I've loved this and we are curious about you, dear listeners, if any of the skills that you have surprised you or have been unexpectedly impactful in your life or your career, please let us know. You can find us at willowmar.com or on Instagram @thoughtfulrealtor and reach out to us directly.
And if you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. We read each and every one of them and are always appreciative when you share the love. So until next time, bye!
Bye.
Bye.
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